Wow, WFA already has 4 posts about this issue up. May as well add to the debate then.
View the page in question here.
I don't see how Hal having a 3some with Zinda and Helena is sexist. They're adults, it's pretty well established that Hal hits on women a lot and I don't think it's too out of character for Helena or Zinda to have a one night stand. *Maybe* that's because I don't think one night stands are bad or morally wrong, unlike most everyone else I know. Having sex, not a bad thing ok? Anyway, from what I've read of both Zinda and Helena, they both seem like they like sex and booze. Having Helena have another one night stand does not make her a slut. While we're on it, The use of the word slut? Really derogatory and disrespectful.
I have a lot of issues with some comments in the CBR page that I linked to above. So lets go through them.
After storming out on a JLA meeting, Ollie thinks that Hal needs to confess a threeway? How does that make any sense?
How about because they're friends, they're used to ribbing each other and they've been waiting on the rooftop for a while so their anger has probably abated?
This throwaway line of dialogue adds nothing to the story, except making Hal seem like he uses alcohol to get laid.
Yes, he probably does. What's your point?
It also paints Blackhawk and Huntress in a very negative light; they never had serious romantic relations with anyone during a lengthy run of a team comic, but a bottle of grappa gets them naked together?
You'll only think that's portraying them in a negative light if you think casual sex is bad. Consenting adults + sex generally equals fun. And yes I do think you can consent whilst drunk. I don't like the commenter's insinuation that the women have to be duped, tricked or made drunk. For all they know it could have been Zinda or Helena's idea. But oh look, that would give the women some sort of agency over their sex lives wouldn't it? I get the impression the commenter doesn't think they would ever willingly have casual sex. I disagree.
They go from being professional teammates and friends to some fantasy groupies.
Erm, no. Having a one night stand with Hal and each other does not stop them being professional teammates. People sleep with folks they work with all the time, it doesn't stop them doing their job. I also don't see how sleeping with Hal makes them groupies - that term intimates that the night was all about Hal. I betcha both Zinda and Helena enjoyed the shag too. And a 3some doesn't mean they got down with each other either. Even if they did, so what?
With one line you did a good job at tearing down years of progressive writing by Simone.
By giving the characters a sex life? Get stuffed.
I think if Huntress was congratulating Black Canary on a threeway with Green Lantern and Green Arrow, fanboys would be up in arms.
They probably would be. But that doesn't mean that it's a bad thing that Hal had a 3some with Z and H. And of course Ollie congratulated him on it, he had a fun night! I congratulate my friends too if they have a fun night, that doesn't mean the other participants are being disrespected.
Gail Simone's comments:
I hate to see Huntress get branded as a slut again.
Who's branding her a slut? No one in the story is. If the readers then decide she's a slut, that's their issues.
Once again, this is all about the man
Only because it's a conversation between 2 men, talking about their experiences.
I really feel like most writers of mainstream comics get the sex thing all wrong over and over. It’s all wink wink nudge nudge and women as trophies and thumbs up
I really didn't feel that it read as women as trophies.
But it does feel weird that people can read bop and still come away with the impression that THAT Huntress and THAT Lady Blackhawk would get drunk and be someone’s sad Penthouse fantasy.
Now that's fair enough. That's an is out of character type comment. Well, Gail Simone wrote BoP, she'll know the characters, I haven't read all of BoP and I don't know the characters. But, in my knowledge of them, I can definitely see them both getting drunk and laid. I'd be surprised if Zinda and Helena actually shagged each other, given that Zinda's from the 40s and Helena hasn't revealed any lady loving tendencies, so far as I know. But that doesn't mean they wouldn't shag Hal.
So yeah, I liked this issue a lot, far better than #1. It's a bit of a shame that Kara's costume isn't longer in the torso area, but then again they changed her cape several times in Superman: WONK too. The rest of the issue was great.
I'm really surprised no one has commented yet on the text bit at the end of the issue - the bit about the Atom, and Jean Loring. If anything was gonna get called out for sexism that would be it, I'd have thought. Man, the writer, (Is it Robinson?) really hates Jean Loring doesn't he?
Man, looking back on those stories now, she [Loring] is a major pill. Yeah that's one thing me and Ray have in common. I was even married to a girl like that for a couple of weeks. (Boy was I relieved to learn that marriages in Bolivia aren't legal in the US.)
Dismissive. Rude. Playing for laughs. No idea if the marriage story is true or not, if it is, it's a rather ugly thing to say in your public place of work. If not, it seems an odd thing to put in.
After having to put up with what I was sure was a marriage of headaches for Ray (except in the bedroom, where I'm sure it was Jean who had the headaches)
So not only is she not a nice friendly compliant wife, she also won't put out? Oh noes, poor Ray, how will he cope. Hey guess what. Sex - not a right. Not happy with how much you're getting? Have a wank.
And then Jean returns to his life an even bigger nutjob than we realized, and kills poor Sue Dibny.
That's just a sentence filled with bile. We know that Loring wasn't all there, she had quite clearly gone to the dark side, but why all the hate?
I think it's pretty clear that the writer of the text piece doesn't like Jean Loring. I'm not suggesting that the writer hates all women. I do think the above pieces of text uses sexist and demeaning language.